"While dictators rage and statesmen talk, all Europe dances — to The Lambeth Walk."

Friday, 13 March 2009

Funeral of PC Stephen Carroll

Today PC Stephen Carroll, the police officer killed in Northern Ireland on Monday by dissident Republicans, was honoured by colleagues, family and friends.

The Catholic Bishop of Dromore addressed the congregation:

"You are greatly mistaken, your way of thinking is backward-looking, the people of Ireland and Britain have chosen a better way forward, the way of reconciliation and accommodation.

We are determined not to allow ourselves to be dragged back into the morass of hatred and violence."

His widow asked that his death be the last in this bloody conflict.
Fine sentiments, and let us hope that it's not already too late.

Yesterday the bodies of Patrick Azimkar (below left), 21, and Mark Quinsey, 23, the two soldiers killed on Saturday, were released to their families after a military tribute at the base where they died.


Dr.D said...

What is the ethnic background of Patrick Azimkar?

The Venerable 1st Earl of Cromer said...

It wasn't actually mentioned in any of the papers I've read Dr. D, but I'm guessing from his name Turkish.

Dr.D said...

Re: Patrick Azimkar
I am always truly saddened when I hear of Irish and Englishmen killing each other. This, however, looks to be different.

It appears that England has sent a muzlim to fight against the Irish. I can never accept a muzlim as an authentic Englishman. This is more like sending your imported dog to fight against the Irish, so if he gets killed, well its too bad about your dog, but I'm not really sure you should have had him in the first place. He was not good for you either.

Muzlims to not belong in the UK, muzlims do not belong in Ireland, and muzlims do not belong in the USA. They must be eradicated from all of them before we will ever return to a normal state of civil life.

The Venerable 1st Earl of Cromer said...

Going to have to disagree with you on this one, Dr. D.

I'm no fan of mass immigration, but I'd say the Army is one of the areas of British life where foreigners can contribute the most, when they're willing; see for example the Gurkhas.

It would be better if immigration on this scale had never occurred, but people like this lad were trying to make the best of it. It's not his fault mass immigration hasn't really worked out, anymore than it's mine.

It seems he was of Turkish Cypriot origin and in no way, shape or form a practising Muslim.

He did die serving this country; he was unarmed and executed shielding civilians.

Dr.D said...

By all means, 1st Earl, you are certainly free to disagree with me. People do it all the time, only it rarely happens in a civil form.

I would like to discuss this point with you, however, and from an American perspective. I'm going to read a bit into your statement, perhaps more than you intended, and if that is the case, all you need to to is to tell me that is not what you intended.

It sounds to me like you are saying, in effect, that anyone in England, from any ethnic background, can become an Englishman, provided he adopts English ways, serves the English government and English society, and in general acts like an Englishman. This is something that we in America have come to call the concept of a "proposition nation." It is saying that the concept of nationhood exist only in living within the society and following its rules, something that any human being can conceivably do.

This is in conflict with the older idea of nationhood and citizenship as belonging to those who have true roots in the soil, whose ancestors have built the place, whose forefathers have fought and bled for this real estate, and who have an inherent loyalty to this particular place. This sort of citizenship is built on families and attachments to specific places, to traditions and faith, and yes, to race.

I firmly believe in this older understanding of nationhood and citizenship. We see, at least some of us see, that the "proposition nation," is an idea that is rapidly killing the USA. We can no more make an American out of a meskin than we can make an American out of Kenyan, as we are discovering to our sorrow (but not surprise). For the same reason, I do not think you can make an Englishman out of a Turkish Cypriot, an Indian, or a Pakistani.

The Venerable 1st Earl of Cromer said...

Dr. D:

I'm happy to discuss it. I formulated a long reply but IE ceashed before I could submit it - can you contact me on


then I'll write my response again and email it.

English Muslim said...

I say Dr. D, you can't be a real doctor can you if you are so bigoted?

And what of my parents born and bred in England (Derbyshire) who willingly converted to Islam? Are they not English? And what of the thousands of other white Enlgish muslims who trace there family trees back hundreds of years who have converted to Islam, the religion of truth? Are they not English?

Take your bigotry and put it where, my dear sir, where the sun does not shine.